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 Forum index » TSGK General » Tips & Tricks
Hopping
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1337_Byte

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 01:29    Post subject:  Hopping  

How do you hop around and get a lot of speed. I just jump up and down and use sprint when I land, but in other videos they seem to crouch at some point in the jump. What's the best way to hop effectively?
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 01:44    Post subject: Re: Hopping  

1337_Byte wrote:
How do you hop around and get a lot of speed. I just jump up and down and use sprint when I land, but in other videos they seem to crouch at some point in the jump. What's the best way to hop effectively?


Hold a strafe key, hit sprint + curve your mouse to get speed up, hit jump then crouch. Release sprint, forward (if held), keep crouch held. press jump just before landing.

Keep jumping + pressing alternate strafe keys, add boost if required or just start afresh. Very Happy

Probably easier to watch a video than it is to explain tbh. Or I'm naff at explaining it. Probably the latter! Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 01:47    Post subject:  

Alright thanks, I'll try that out later.
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 01:48    Post subject:  

A bit rough but...:



You hit jump then crouch when the velocity is up (after mouse curve), in console type cl_showpos 1 to get it (velocity) on screen - a must imo when learning. I have mine on all the time.
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 02:20    Post subject:  

Check out the two bunnyhopping tutorials on hl2dm-university.

http://www.hl2dm-university.com/training_videos.htm

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 03:43    Post subject:  

I have checked my velocity and I don't think the strafe makes a lot of difference if you get the hop timing right. I know what the theory is. I just a novice but I listening to you feet landing with earphones on makes a lot of difference. I add strafe and extra crouches I think as appropriate. Question
There are those who seem to get extra hight and distance but I think its all timing.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 04:38    Post subject:  

Zog Ecosse wrote:
I have checked my velocity and I don't think the strafe makes a lot of difference if you get the hop timing right. I know what the theory is. I just a novice but I listening to you feet landing with earphones on makes a lot of difference. I add strafe and extra crouches I think as appropriate. Question
There are those who seem to get extra hight and distance but I think its all timing.

Zog


I did a bit of experimenting with this this evening, and found that when I do not strafe I have to curve my mouse quite a bit more (a good 30 degrees or so) to get a straight jump than I normally do with strafe. Otherwise I jump diagonally at a pretty crappy velocity (relative to what I normally do). That being said, when I used the same curve but with strafe added my velocity got quite a bit better.

As far as I can tell, strafe shortens the curve required to get a good jump, but practicing strafe jumping without the strafe could be an effective way to train the mouse curve and improve the strafe jump (and inherently incorporates air control when bringing the mouse back to center, as you have to rotate quite a ways past center to get a decent jump (at least I do)..... Laughing don't think I made much sense in these parentheses). A decent jump for me being 500+ vel with a crouch at 600 grav.

Just my two (drunken) cents (and not explained particularly well!). But regardless, Zog just gave me a new method to better my strafe jump Twisted Evil .

Sure, after the initial jump it's all timing, but without a good starting jump you can only go so fast and have less margin for error with the timing of your hops.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 08:43    Post subject:  

watch the video from a seagull as often as possible. it takes a lot of time to learn even doing the move correctly, without thinking about the speed at first. after you learn it your speed will slowly improve. you will have to do it for 1-2 years to be able to master it nicely. I have been doing it for a year or so and I still have a lot of room to improve the speed.

I think IŽll do a bhop movie of my own. it will be far less than optimal technique but one more bhop vid canŽt hurt. IŽll post a link here when IŽm done.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:05    Post subject:  

Lawitz wrote:
watch the video from a seagull as often as possible. it takes a lot of time to learn even doing the move correctly, without thinking about the speed at first. after you learn it your speed will slowly improve. you will have to do it for 1-2 years to be able to master it nicely. I have been doing it for a year or so and I still have a lot of room to improve the speed.

I think IŽll do a bhop movie of my own. it will be far less than optimal technique but one more bhop vid canŽt hurt. IŽll post a link here when IŽm done.


It does take time to master even when you 'get it' and like Lawitz I'm far from perfect (I have some real 'marish days when I'm all over the place) but it is great once you learn.

Try practising the initial jump on a map like Lockdown (charger jump) or Thumper (from middle to outer ledges either end) since they are good places to continuously practice.

Thumper in particular is very good for hopping practice as you have two ends for strafe jumps and a its a circle (lap if you like) round the level for hopping practice - I often warm up on it Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:29    Post subject:  

I spent 3 months running around on a locally created Lockdown Server trying to master mine. I find the best way to learn is: -

1st - Do it while standing still (I.e no forward or sprint).

Simply press Jump, then crouch (when your at the top of the jump), then jump (As soon as you land)

If you time it do it right you should have like a bobbing motion going on like a wave that is contineous (I.e no pauses, should flow).

Once you have got that, try repeating, but press forward with run first. If you can time Run Jump Crouch you should have a pretty effective bunnyhop.

Every player does it different and times it different at the end of the day. Thats just how I have learned to do it. I know there is a few other more effective ways of doing it that allows you to get much better speed and bigger distances, however it involves more movement control with the mouse and aimming it at the right angle which I couldn't be arsed to learn. Too much work lol.

Bunny hop is a must must learn though, it will help anyones game 10X more.

Also on a sidenote, don't learn to use the Magnum after 1 and 1/2 years playing the game like I did, I used to use my SMG over the Mag simply cus I cudn't aim with it (Still can't now Razz ).

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 15:38    Post subject:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XShUAxULrZo



Been playing this game since release and still cant do it. Embarassed
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 15:43    Post subject:  

Wonderbanana wrote:
Lawitz wrote:
watch the video from a seagull as often as possible. it takes a lot of time to learn even doing the move correctly, without thinking about the speed at first. after you learn it your speed will slowly improve. you will have to do it for 1-2 years to be able to master it nicely. I have been doing it for a year or so and I still have a lot of room to improve the speed.

I think IŽll do a bhop movie of my own. it will be far less than optimal technique but one more bhop vid canŽt hurt. IŽll post a link here when IŽm done.


It does take time to master even when you 'get it' and like Lawitz I'm far from perfect (I have some real 'marish days when I'm all over the place) but it is great once you learn.

Try practising the initial jump on a map like Lockdown (charger jump) or Thumper (from middle to outer ledges either end) since they are good places to continuously practice.

Thumper in particular is very good for hopping practice as you have two ends for strafe jumps and a its a circle (lap if you like) round the level for hopping practice - I often warm up on it Very Happy


There is a modded map around the is just the rail / charger area of Lockdown with a teleporter that take you back to the rails when you fail to make the jump. Damned if I can remember the name though.
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 15:44    Post subject:  

Also Ptrain is a good map to practice on.
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 15:50    Post subject:  

[AgC]Flushthetoilet wrote:
Wonderbanana wrote:
Lawitz wrote:
watch the video from a seagull as often as possible. it takes a lot of time to learn even doing the move correctly, without thinking about the speed at first. after you learn it your speed will slowly improve. you will have to do it for 1-2 years to be able to master it nicely. I have been doing it for a year or so and I still have a lot of room to improve the speed.

I think IŽll do a bhop movie of my own. it will be far less than optimal technique but one more bhop vid canŽt hurt. IŽll post a link here when IŽm done.


It does take time to master even when you 'get it' and like Lawitz I'm far from perfect (I have some real 'marish days when I'm all over the place) but it is great once you learn.

Try practising the initial jump on a map like Lockdown (charger jump) or Thumper (from middle to outer ledges either end) since they are good places to continuously practice.

Thumper in particular is very good for hopping practice as you have two ends for strafe jumps and a its a circle (lap if you like) round the level for hopping practice - I often warm up on it Very Happy


There is a modded map around the is just the rail / charger area of Lockdown with a teleporter that take you back to the rails when you fail to make the jump. Damned if I can remember the name though.


That would be Pig Poppers modded version of Lockdown called the Lockdown leap.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 16:03    Post subject:  

[KC] Rafadagaffer wrote:
[AgC]Flushthetoilet wrote:
Wonderbanana wrote:
Lawitz wrote:
watch the video from a seagull as often as possible. it takes a lot of time to learn even doing the move correctly, without thinking about the speed at first. after you learn it your speed will slowly improve. you will have to do it for 1-2 years to be able to master it nicely. I have been doing it for a year or so and I still have a lot of room to improve the speed.

I think IŽll do a bhop movie of my own. it will be far less than optimal technique but one more bhop vid canŽt hurt. IŽll post a link here when IŽm done.


It does take time to master even when you 'get it' and like Lawitz I'm far from perfect (I have some real 'marish days when I'm all over the place) but it is great once you learn.

Try practising the initial jump on a map like Lockdown (charger jump) or Thumper (from middle to outer ledges either end) since they are good places to continuously practice.

Thumper in particular is very good for hopping practice as you have two ends for strafe jumps and a its a circle (lap if you like) round the level for hopping practice - I often warm up on it Very Happy


There is a modded map around the is just the rail / charger area of Lockdown with a teleporter that take you back to the rails when you fail to make the jump. Damned if I can remember the name though.


That would be Pig Poppers modded version of Lockdown called the Lockdown leap.


No mate, I seem to recall it was called dm_quickfiresmartarsestudentwithtoomuchtimeonhishands.

Googled it but cant find anything. Razz Razz
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 16:52    Post subject:  

[AgC]Flushthetoilet wrote:
Also Ptrain is a good map to practice on.


Ptrain bores the shite out of me Sad I can last for 30 seconds before I'm aslee.... *zzzzzZZZZ*
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 16:55    Post subject:  

Good maps for jumping! Very Happy
ultimatejumps.bsp
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Filename  ultimatejumps.bsp 
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work!!!_r1.bsp
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 20:11    Post subject:  

the most important factor for me to do it right was key configuration. the jump must be set to "scroll down" on the mouse. this may sound weird and it will be weird in the beginning but once you learn it, it becomes way easier and faster. its a lot easier to time correctly than using the space bar. I use the following setup:
move: wasd
jump: scroll down
sprint: shift
crouch: space

I uploaded the lockdown leap. its just for learning good and coordinated strafe jumps. its not worth wasting too much time on this though.
The_Lockdown_Leap.bsp
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 20:47    Post subject:  

Lawitz wrote:
the most important factor for me to do it right was key configuration. the jump must be set to "scroll down" on the mouse. this may sound weird and it will be weird in the beginning but once you learn it, it becomes way easier and faster. its a lot easier to time correctly than using the space bar. I use the following setup:
move: wasd
jump: scroll down
sprint: shift
crouch: space


Hmm, interesting, I use keys for all my movement malarky - never tried using the mouse before. Had thought of adding sprint to it but I think my mindset is keys = move, mouse = frag! Laughing (apart from 'the curve' of course)

I always think hopping is a weirdly personal thing - the principal never changes but as someone pointed out earlier, everyone kinda has their own way of doing it.

For me the critical thing was understanding where the speed came from, that was what initially confused me.

I may try a new config when I have an 'enforced' break shortly - there are so many things I think I can do better and I do feel at times that the only way I can do them is to radically change my key setup. But thats another point I guess. It may mean 'Banana Splits' all round in a while though... Wink Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 21:47    Post subject:  

try to make your key setup perfect. I have changed mine quite often till I reached the best result. try to make everything as easily reachable as possible so you can be as fast as possible. cut out the scrolling for a weapon, just use buttons to select them.


I was once doing the jump with space too (but the crouch on the mouse side button). I then got some advice by a player who can hop nicely and he recommended using the scroll wheel (scroll up for him, but down is better suited for me) and I got a lot better than before in just 1 week. soon I was hopping up to 50% faster than before and with far less timing errors.

but donŽt just concentrate on the in-game speed. get your own body faster as well. you canŽt do the bhop because of the realistic world engine, but you can train your speed and loose fat. I do 3x high intensity interval training a week, I go running in the forest for it. I highly recommend it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 22:24    Post subject:  

my sprint is assigned to my scroll wheel (Click) with my weapons on the scroll so it can be a bit troublesome at times Razz Razz Razz

i have never used buttons to select my weapons, overtime i have found I can scroll to which ever weapon i want without any mistake Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 22:34    Post subject:  

but its far slower and any little time you lose can lead to a death. its like a policeman reaching in his backpack for his gun instead of taking it out of its holster which would be a lot faster.
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 22:52    Post subject:  

Lawitz wrote:
try to make your key setup perfect. I have changed mine quite often till I reached the best result. try to make everything as easily reachable as possible so you can be as fast as possible. cut out the scrolling for a weapon, just use buttons to select them.


I don't scroll for most weapons, I have lots of mouse buttons with direct binds Wink

I do really like my set up but as a lot of us do I've got to a point where to improve I need to change but that said I'm lucky (I think!) in that I know what to change.


Lawitz wrote:
I was once doing the jump with space too (but the crouch on the mouse side button). I then got some advice by a player who can hop nicely and he recommended using the scroll wheel (scroll up for him, but down is better suited for me) and I got a lot better than before in just 1 week. soon I was hopping up to 50% faster than before and with far less timing errors.


Good advice matey, but horses for courses - my speed is fine and I know loads of exceptional hoppers - some use similar to you, others use mouse binds - it's a preference thing I reckon. That said it's good to experiment and find what best suits you Very Happy My movement still needs work but I can hop/strafe/skate forwards and backwards at speed so it's not horrendous - if anything I'm my own worst enemy - when it gets hectic I often use too much sprint Rolling Eyes

Lawitz wrote:
but donŽt just concentrate on the in-game speed. get your own body faster as well. you canŽt do the bhop because of the realistic world engine, but you can train your speed and loose fat. I do 3x high intensity interval training a week, I go running in the forest for it. I highly recommend it.


Lol, I may be too lazy for that! Laughing Wink That said I am a fit and nimble bugger anyway - and I have my own solution - coffee!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing Wink
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 00:08    Post subject:  

I have two mouse buttons assigned: MB3 nade MB4 grav gun. The other three are bound to movement. Obviously LMB and RMB are primary and secondary fire. Weapons are bound to keyboard but I mostly use the mouse wheel. It don't matter much because 80% of my kills are physics and nade.
I use the keyboard for the basic hop and add the variations via the bound movement mouse buttons. It not too great at he moment because I am only at the development stage at the moment. Embarassed
Now I have a Reclusa keyboard that has lots of buttons on the LHS and RHS
of the keyboard which I an not yet using Laughing

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 17:49    Post subject:  

I raised my 12 minute max distance run to 2200m in 4 months of training. this is still average but before I wasnŽt doing any training like this. like in the game the speed comes with a lot of time and patience. but IŽm going to train till I reach a "very good" or even the best rating some day that is 3200m even if it will take me 2 or more years to reach.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:12    Post subject:  

Me and a few other Kc's have trained to use curves of nearly 90 degrees and over, for maximum speed.
This means that the starting position for the first jump before a skate, can be facing directly to the left or right.
Strafe "IS" required, and makes an absolutly HUGE difference. If you do not notice a difference between non strafe jump and strafe jump, then your are not strafing correctly. Strafe needs to be used before you are in the air, and in the air when you are crouched. You will not notice a direction change if you are not crouching.
Facing right, start by running with W the way you are facing, curve left 90 degs into a strafe (in this case A), (still holding forwards). Once in the air you can let go of forwards, but not strafe (you can however swap strafe button to chnage direction.)
Holding sprint the whole way through the curve and run is "very" important to hit top speeds. Of cource you can let this go once in the air.

On the very first jump, if done correctly speeds of up to 600 are normal, 700+ is required to get over room 15 in ptrain on grav 600 i think.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 14:56    Post subject:  

I have to try that. I usually get 400-480. but is 90° useable while playing? or is it just to reach high speeds for maps like ptrain?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 02:11    Post subject:  

Spent a long time today trying out all the combos both manually and macroed on my own set up server.... Using the Reclusa keyboard I can program any combo of keys in sequence and together if I want. With all the the advice,and, programing the timing at various ratios, altering the gravity to optimise I achieved an increase of 375 to 400. I found it impossible to work with the angles suggested. One or two degrees over the top and it ended up slower than a basic hop. It is all personal. You make it work for you which ever way. All I tried to do was optimise the mouse angle.
It is all down to timing. Being old I am a bit slow. For me it all came together overnight and I doubt if I will ever be able to get any faster. I still have more control at slower speeds and can think fast enough to do the same hop backwards Laughing

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 15:11    Post subject:  

I tried it and I can only reach 500 as my maximum strafe. could you maybe record a .dem of 600-700?


zog do you use macros to jump? macros are like scripts and not very nice. you can continue playing with them if you want but its generally looked down upon.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 18:46    Post subject:  

I expected this. Evil or Very Mad The answer is NO I do not use macros to jump. I used the macro facility in the keyboard to eliminate the human factor in the timing aspect of the jump so that I could concentrate on the mouse angle as suggested by Fyck. I also created my own server. I would never use anything that might be construed as improper.
A very crude jump can be simulated as I discovered but the timing is limited to 50ms increments hence the need to tune the gravity in order to experiment with the technique. Because the timing ratios are fixed, it is only possible to move in a straight line. As soon as you try to turn, the timing and the gravity are out of sync and at best you lose all momentum but more often than not the effect is the same as trying to play with 6 liters of beer in your system. As you all know, the actual timing of a hops has to be under the control of the player.
I take umbrage at implication. I am trying to develop the thread in a scientific manner for my own improvement and hopefully that of others. What I was hoping for is some enlightenment on the timing aspects of the strafe jump. The velocity of my basic straight line strafe increased from 375 to 400 under test conditions which was the object of a 4 hour movement experiment which has absolutely no practicle application.

Zog
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