TSGK Clan Forum

WhiteNoise · Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 14 Country:

I just wanted to drop a note and tell you my thoughts on this. It seems to be a bit annoying for me lately. I'm in the server these days and asking a question and more and more people are responding by changing their names. Also, I like playing on tsgk servers but my friends no longer want to play on them because they have been muted for whatever reason. And finally, the servers seem to be empty most of the time now. I can only wonder if all of these things are connected.

At the very least it seems to make sense to at least define what is meant by "swearing". "Swearing" is such a subjective term. Most of the people I play with have never been to this forum and would have no idea that there is even a rule on swearing, let alone the word "noob" being considered swearing Shocked

. I was shocked when I read that here. I now wonder if I can say words like "suck"? Depends on how you use it as to whether it's a "swear" word. So what words are considered offensive?

I just bring this up because I find myself playing more and more on other servers because either tsgk servers are all empty (which they are alot these days....except for maybe one across the globe with 3 digit ping) or my friends don't play here anymore. I don't enjoy playing on those other servers as much as I do tsgk so it's getting annoying.

Maybe don't make the mute permanent at first? Or at least be more descriptive about exactly what "swearing" is.

Thanks for reading

Ghost Dog_TSGK · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 07:09 Post subject:

Commonly on other online FPS game servers, you will find a zero tolerance for swearing and no warning accompanied with an insant permanent ban.

The forum address is on 24/7 scroll in the servers and it takes seconds to type that into your browser and visit the forum, the main TSGK website is also scrolled 24/7 and features a direct link to the forum.

I don't see why someone would feel the need to use any kind of negative language during a game.

I live in the United States, I find a server of ours to play in at any normal time of day with activity sometimes mutiple choices of US servers, one thing I notice though is the server empties very quickly as soon as a player arrives and says "lame" or "suck" or "luck" etc etc after he is killed.I know for a fact that is a connection I see it personally happening.

[DOH] Mick · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:22 Post subject:

Please can you put up a list of the words you cant say so we can debate them to see if more words need to be added .

Can you take off the ( ****** has been muted ) from the client side I don't need to no if ****** has been muted and find it off putting when the message keeps coming up .

Question

If you cant give us a list of the words we cant say can you give us a list of the words we can say .

Osiris_TSGK · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 13:36 Post subject:

WhiteNoise · Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 14 Country:

I can't argue with any statistics. I can only go on what my expereince has been. And that is that a lot more people have responded to me by changing their names and the servers are indeed empty much more so than they used to be. I live in the US and typically the servers are empty most of the day until later in the evening and even then there is only one server which will have anyone in it. The servers I used to play on all the time (because my ping was lower) are always empty now. I could send you screen shots of my game browser if anyone cared.

You are correct though that alot of other factors may have something to do with it. The lack of support for hl2dm and the number of crashes makes it in some ways probably one of the poorest fps games I've ever owned. That very well could have something to do with it. I had not thought of that when I wrote the first post but I will concede you could be correct here.

As for the mute rule, we will have to just agree to disagree. I have NEVER played any other fps game that instituted such a thing. Again, I'm not disagreeing with ghost's statement. I'm just telling you what my experience has been and I've never seen such a thing before. I've also never seen any rule so harshly enforced without some reasonable warning. I don't believe that you can reasonably expect most casual players (non-pro) to leave the game and follow a link that's being displayed on the screen while they're playing. I would never link out of the game because my vid card would crash the game and when I actually quit the game because I've finished playing, I'm never going to remember to "go to that website that kept flashing on the screen". Not only are you asking them to link out but you're also asking them to peruse the forums to by chance find nuggets like "noob" not being allowed (which is kind of lost in the writing).

As for the quota issue, it seems you are more interested in not allowing anyone who might abuse the word "noob" from chatting on the servers. The fact that they might NEVER use the word if they knew it was against the rules does not concern you. An analogy would be the government making up a rule that you can no longer drive 75 miles an hour on the freeway because it's just too dangerous. They don't advertise the change nor do they change the signs. They just arrest those that drive 75 because they're dangerous drivers. Same thing. The officer responding by saying "we only pulled you over after you went 75 MPH 10 times", is no consolation.

So you didn't answer ....is the word "suck" allowed? "Swearing" still needs to be clarified IMO.

Osiris_TSGK · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 17:22 Post subject:

I will not argue anymore, so only usefull posts concerning this system will receive an answer.

WhiteNoise · Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 14 Country:

Since most people drive 65 it's ok to blindside those driving 75 just because there aren't many of them?

As I said earlier, it seems your system is more interested in muting people because of who they are, as opposed to how they behave on your servers. The fact that you Judge someone's behavior on your server against a rule they aren't aware of is why I say that. With this logic, you could get to some strange places. If you're filtering program could find a way to find out which of your players are verbally swearing to other people in the same room with them, then you would mute them as well. Or if you could find out which of them cussed out their parents, spouses, or children earlier that day, you would mute them as well. I'm having trouble drawing the line with this logic I'm reading.

Sorry but right is right and wrong is wrong, regardless of how few people it impacts. And it just isn't justifiable to assume that people have the same standards you do with their language and can be just muted without a warning. Many people use the words you refer to as swear words in their language without necessarily directing it at anyone angrily. They at least deserve a warning. Even if it is only 1 out of 1000.

Don't get me wrong, you can run your server however you want. But you can't justify it and call it fair without getting at least "some" reality checks.

Lawitz · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 18:08 Post subject:

people who swear or say noob all the time perfectly know that what they are saying is not considered normal and that it disturbs people.

its just a moral thing. would you go out and swear at random people because they are in your way etc.? its the same thing in the game. its not bots you play against.

so if they swear (really heavy swearing needed until you get muted) and get muted they will have to learn their lesson from it and behave better from then on.

in my eyes the auto mute system is simply awesome taking out those small percentage of people who destroy the game for us, the big percentage.

WhiteNoise · Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 14 Country:

The problem is that you assume use of the word means they are directed at someone. I can easily say noob 20 times in a single map and be discussing the use of the word in ffa games and what it means. Likewise, as I stated earlier, some people use swear words to exaggerate their emotions. They aren't necessarily swearing "AT" someone or calling them names. Different people have different standards on what is acceptable to say in their everyday language. The fact that your system only cuts out a small percentage of people doesn't make it fair and thats the only argument I've seen for it thus far.

Lawitz · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 18:29 Post subject:

unlike in real life you cant really tell how a person means something, while player 1 may understand it as acceptable, player 2 may feel heavily offended. I think that the people who are muted can be happy they are not banned and can still continue playing on our servers because Osiris is a great admin. others could have long banned those players instead.

WhiteNoise · Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 14 Country:

And what would you say if I told you these people would not use any of those words if they had known it was against the rules?

Lawitz · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 19:12 Post subject:

"no-swearing" is a general rule that can count for any server. if those players think they can behave bad like that and not suffer any consequences some day its their own fault. they need to get a lesson out of it so they will probably stop swearing on other servers as well. thats my view of it.

Osiris_TSGK · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 20:19 Post subject:

WhiteNoise · Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 14 Country:

Law you think the word noob would be a common understanding for a swear word? I've heard of closing your mind and not allowing yourself to openly hear the other side but this is ridulous. You're not being reasonable. The sad thing is that if more people got caught in this trap statistically then you'd see this pompous display of ethics melt away quickly.

Osiris,

There is no way in hell orhpans would know that having a conversation about what the word noob means is illegal on your server. Sorry.

It is true that the servers are free but it would be alot easier to respect the servers if you would be more open about exactly what you consider to be disrespectful. This attempt to pretend that everyone just should know right off what is right and wrong in your mind is nonsense. Sure, somethings most people will agree on, but there is just too much subjectivity AND not all of this language is used to call people names. Your program cannot possibly know the context in which certain words are being used. Your reasoning for the mute feature was to eliminate people calling people names and running them off. This is only one context.

In my opinion the admin DOES owe it's players something. The same respect you're asking for. You want them to read your mind and respect your wishes but you don't want to show any respect to them by at least educating them on what you don't want to see on your servers. Again, you can do anything you want on your servers but you're not going to pretend like it's fair.

And I'm making this post long so that you have, yet again, an excuse to ignore and not respond to my reasoned points.

Freelancer · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 21:12 Post subject:

Diet H2O_TSGK · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 21:22 Post subject:

Whoah there Blacknose.

First of all, you do realise it's a game server? And that this forum is a games forum? The words ... pompous display of ethics, fairness, subjectivity etc seem a bit over the top. Maybe you got mixed up and there's a website out there on Burma which has comments from you extolling the virtues of crowbarring rebels.

Anyway, it's simply about being polite. Hard to define and all that, but I think we all know what it means. Anyway, it's a shame all your mates won't play on our servers anymore (well it's not - I'm just being polite).

You can argue all you want, but maybe your missing the point? Seriously dude (nod to shimmy for using the word dude). Your analogies - speeding and law enforcement, fairness, equity are all about arguing that an injustice is being committed. But... it's a game server
- they are not banned, just muted
- they are impolite
- there are NO false positive's. Proove otherwise
- they they can go elsewhere
- they have not paid anything for the servers
- they were respected guests who did not respect other guests
- it's a games server

This post isn't long enough... just kidding - it is.

Osiris_TSGK · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 21:31 Post subject:

Freelancer · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 21:35 Post subject:

Listen to smart water bottle,he is a Science masta and all that.
But on his post i agree 90 % cuz its all correct and nothing unneeded POined out.
ALtho the 10 % of my disagreeness(is that a word?) is to the word Dude...Not only shimmy is a dude and you can call ANYONE dude,and shimmy wont be jelous of you calling someone else dude Smile

But WhiteNoise has a little point there .
Word Noob came from a word Newbie ,but it is abused nowdays cuz of some dumb kids (no offence guys >_< ) puting together the Newbie+Looser+Fag+etc o it so its now a BIg swear word to all Sad

THe word is being abused and its sad.
My way is to forget the Noob thing and go straight to comieing up with new words that mean something Funny and not THAT offencive Wink

LIke a "Shimmy is a sandal shoe" Laughing

Its Funny for most of ppl i sayd it to and its not that offencive altho it shows about something that happend during a game Smile

P.S.: THe whole thing was based on my gaming experiance so dont punch me hard please

Nutz · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 21:58 Post subject:

WhiteNoise · Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 14 Country:

Controllerboy_TSGK · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 22:46 Post subject:

Nutz · Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 23:21 Post subject:

WhiteNoise · Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 14 Country:

You're right. The fact that most people use it that way justifies executing everyone who uses it. Sorry I mentioned the concept of fairness. The only reason "noob" is being called a special phrase is because it is where the whole "people ought to know what swearing is" argument falls apart.

Diet H2O_TSGK · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 01:34 Post subject:

Nob is a nice word.

Nutz · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 01:35 Post subject:

[DOH] Mick · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 01:45 Post subject:

Just had an idea Wink

TSGK should make a I'M SORRY FOR SWEARING on the forum ... anyone who is auto muted could say sorry on it and once a month you could unmute players who swear.... anyone who swears again could then be banned from the servers Idea

Cannon Foddr · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 01:54 Post subject:

You should not consider the auto mute system a punishment for bad behaviour Mick. It's there not to punish, but to protect other players from verbal aggression.

At first I also thought there was some unfairness in this system, as players are muted who didn't know beforehand about the auto-mute system. But when you think about it....

Suppose you have visitors in your house who call you all kinds of terrible things. You tell them after their abuse they can still come and play again, but they have to keep silent. Hm, sounds more than fair to me, they are still welcome where in the real world they would get boot kicked onto the pavement.

[DOH] Mick · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 02:02 Post subject:

[DOH] Mick · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 02:15 Post subject:

I have just thought about my last post and it is wrong of me to put forward ideas being that I am not even a member of TSGK ....
so here goes sorry .

Osiris_TSGK · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 02:52 Post subject: