TSGK Clan Forum

[deluxe]

Alright, i asked this to myself a few times, but it's hard to find a definite answer, here's the question:

do we need to speak a language to be able to think?


everyone "thinks" in a language, for example, my thoughts are mostly german. so, do u have to be able to know a language to be able to think?
what do u think guys, give me your answers

the one of the best answers gets a banana. if i have a new question, i will give another banana to the best answer, like this there would be some kind of point system lol^^

have fun

[Ping]

i always think in english O.o

[Xenon]

Hmm...mind boggling...

Well perhaps without language humans would just "think" with advanced instinct like a clever animal but unable to string thoughts together.
(Heh, instinct, I'm beginning to sound like Dr. Breen )

[Lawitz]

why not, think of babies who can´t speak yet, they have to be thinking without a language.

[deluxe]

[Shimmy_TSGK]

well instincts are how thinking is governed by the genetic basis. Think of our brain like a processor. It runs instructions in a certain way. The processor didn't invent itself but the software the goes thru it's transistors is the one affected by the environment. The smarter the programmer the smarter the brain, but the processor also has it's limit.

As for thinking in a language, It depends, I think in the langauge i speak. which is Arabic, English and french. Each has it's on hard drive partition.

Oh one last thing, we take serial killers for example. The wiring of their brains are completely different than normal people, to them doing what they do seems normal. This has been proven by psychologist and neuro-scientists when they performed psychological and brain imagery tests on them.

[Osiris_TSGK]

Hearing impairment is the perfect exemple that you don't need to speak (or being able to hear) a language to think, and i doubt that people affected by hearing impairment think with the pictures of the sign language in their mind.

Thinking is a state of mind and you were born with this faculty before learning any kind of language.

[Diet H2O_TSGK]

[Zog Ecosse]

For me the it goes something like this

You have two minds - a body mind and a head mind.
The language of the body mind is universal and crosses not only cultures but also species. It is something which is both acquired through experience and we are also born with it. A good example of this is fear. The body mind tells the head mind to beware you are in danger. The reaction to, for example, an object coming straight at you is to get out of the way, self preservation or instinct whatever, you do not have to think in the conventional way you just do it. Other examples are hunger, thirst , love, hate, pain etc they have no language.
The head mind is the cpu of the body if you like.
It learns and about and processes information it receives from the senses and what is actually happening. The thought process if you like. The actual language we communicate my be different but the thought process for for
as simple task like opening a door can be understood by anyone who has opened a door by the use of non verbal communication.
When we move on to more complex and abstract concepts, the only way to communicate and get others to understand is by the use of language.
Until recently my job involved meeting and communicating with people from all over the world. Whenever possible, I tried to think in their language and communicate accordingly. In almost every occasion, common ground was found and basic communication established by a mixture of languages and non verbal communication.

So my answer would have been - I think in whatever language it took to get my job done. Now, I suppose I can think in English, French and to a very limited extent, Russian. By this I mean that I only have to resort to thinking in my native English when I do not understand what is being said or I am unable to communicate a concept in the appropriate language.

I also speak cow

Moo

Zog

[Knife]

Hmm. Sometimes I catch myself speaking French to customers at work. They look at me like
This is cause I deal often with frenchspeaking people. Right after a conversation in french it happens that I continue speaking french in the next conversation. Even if the other person talks dutch .

But in weekends, I mostly think with images

[Shimmy_TSGK]

[Xenon]

[Phat Bacon]

if i'm hungry i cry. i then eat and cry again. then i cry about crying then i eat more and sleep.

[Xmeagol]

I find it helpful at times like these to remind myself that our true enemy is Instinct. Instinct was our mother when we were an infant species. Instinct coddled us and kept us safe in those hardscrabble years when we hardened our sticks and cooked our first meals above a meager fire and started at the shadows that leapt upon the cavern's walls. But inseparable from Instinct is its dark twin, Superstition. Instinct is inextricably bound to unreasoning impulses, and today we clearly see its true nature. Instinct has just become aware of its irrelevance, and like a cornered beast, it will not go down without a bloody fight. Instinct would inflict a fatal injury on our species. Instinct creates its own oppressors, and bids us rise up against them. Instinct tells us that the unknown is a threat, rather than an opportunity. Instinct slyly and covertly compels us away from change and progress. Instinct, therefore, must be expunged. It must be fought tooth and nail, beginning with the basest of human urges: The urge to reproduce.

(Cut the last line, people may think that I said it because i never got laid in my life, thus wanting to destroy the human race so no one gets laid ever again.)

[Xmeagol]

The real question is; How is it like to think without a language?
does our sub-councious do it for us?

Babies don't speak an language, mainly because they dont have teeth ( you get my point )

There has to be comunication otherwise humans would not exist..
therefor if the true human language may be the one on which there is no actual language.

[Zog Ecosse]

I said I speak cow ................can anybody translate

Moo Mooo Moo Moo. Mooo Mooo Mooo. Moo Mooo Moo Moo

and Phat, don't cry I only smacked you once. Babies need a little discipline occasionally.

I live for laughs.

Zog

[Xmeagol]

my posts rock

[deluxe]

wow a lot of feedback i dont have the time to read everything now, i'll do that tomorrow.

[StonedCabbage]

Dunno about the Mind thing, too much deep thought going on there, but with instincts I think that is something your body pays attention to @ subconsious level.

[sargE]

I thought all babies were born with the ability to speak. They might not be able to understand speach.

I read somewhere that if (during pregnancy) the mother spoke another language aswell as her native one, the baby will find it easier to understand the foreun language and would be able to speak it alot easier when it is thought. This might come around from the baby hearing his/her mothers speach during pregnancy. The foteus cannot understand when the mother is saying, but it can certainly recognise it as another language and must retain some of it.

To answer the question. No, you dont have to be able to speak a language to think. Thought might be in a certain language even if the person is not able to speak the language (similar to osiris's post). I.E if your thinking your next move in a chess match, you are thinking very quickly to yourself, trying to work out what your next move should be and if its the right move or not. Trying to say all of your thoughts through this period (maybe 1-5mins depending on how much you care about chess) aloud is alot harder than it sounds (try it!).

[Spitfire]

[sargE]

[Ghost Dog_TSGK]

[Xmeagol]

Bleh

[maeggs]

[Sidi]

You should do some reading on feral children if the subject interests you. When raised without a language children find it nearly impossible to learn one at a later age. If they have little or no contact with humans or human society they pretty much will be unable to function normally, no matter how much care they're given. I doubt it's just the lack of language that cripples them, I think it's also in large part never seeing how people behave, the things that we can accomplish, etc.

Unfortunately, it's very hard to gauge the accuracy of many of the stories and reports, since they're so old and often poorly documented. The most conclusive tend to be the modern children imprisoned by parents in closets or rooms with no contact. The results usually aren't pretty.

[deluxe]

[Zog Ecosse]

Phat_Bacon wrote -

o_O MoO mooo MoO mooo baaaa

For those of you who can not understand MOOrse code, I will reply in English-

Sorry Phat, I can't wear my spandex combine skin tonight, it is in the wash.

I live for laughs

Zog

[Xmeagol]

LOL Zog!


xD

[[ TSF ] ViTiaTe]

Wow what a cool question! I've thought that before!!

(Put's on degree in biology)

I reckon we are capable of thought without language, but once we've learned a language we just get into the habbit of thinking to ourselves in our native tongue.

For example, if you're running and jump you have to gauge speed, distance, height and all of that but if you had to think in lanuage you'd just slow your self down and fall flat on your arse, - you just "Think it" without knowing you're thinking about it.

Does anyone here that speaks two native languages sometime think in their no native tongue?